0-235 and 0-255 range switch for 10-bit ProRes still present?

  • Hi,


    I'm very new to the forum and this AMAZING plug-in. Would like to first of all thank you, Mr. Vouk, for keeping it cool and free.


    I've gone through the forum and don't think this has ever been specifically discussed before so here is goes: I find it very strange that the 8-bit 0-235/0-255 range switch is still there when ProRes is selected in Voukoder internal settings. It doesn't really make sense since 10-bit ProRes is... well 10-bit.


    0-235.png


    What does it do anyway when 10-bit codec profile is used? The second "0-255" option exports a result irreversibly encoded with "crushed" luma and chroma levels. Glad the "0-235" one is always selected by default so there's a lower chance to screw up during the final export.


    My Premiere version is CS6 (6.0.5), but I don't think it matters in this case.


    Regardless, exporting ProRes directly from Premiere on PC is something I never thought possible. Amazing job, man.

  • The color range selection is always present. It does not change or disappear for certain encoders.


    There is always a possibility for "headroom" and "footroom" in a limited color range. It is just labeled like this for 8-bit resolution.


    For 8-bit the range is: 0-255 (16-235)

    For 10-bit the range is 0-1023 (64-940)


    Actually I could remove these values to avoid confusion about it.


    I have to admit I am not sure what it means for "ProRes". It is just a necessary technical requirement and I just allow the user to change this setting. And yes, it was absolutely intentional to set the value to limited by default.

  • I see. Thank you for clearing this up.


    I wouldn't remove the values, rather change the labels to:

    • Limited (16-235/64-940)
    • Full (0-255/0-1023)

    Removing values might potentially cause duplicate questions on the forums. These numbers next to the Options at least hint at their meaning.

  • I found out what was happening with my 0-1023 ProRes:


    If you encode a file with video levels as ProRes444/ProRes422, most pieces of software will interpret the file correctly. However, if you encode the file as ProRes444 with full levels or RGB values, most post production software will incorrectly assume your file is video levels and clip values.


    So DaVinci Resolve assumes that ProRes444 is video levels and so does Premiere when you import it. Even though, according to the ProRes whitepaper, ProRes444 can encode RGB 4:4:4 data or YCbCr 4:2:2 data.


    Even if you did encode RGB 4:4:4 data to a ProRes444 file, your software would still need to correctly interpret that data and not clamp values. This is why these 4:4:4 codecs are so confusing. Premiere in that case would clamp those full range values or assume the file was video range. You still might be able to access those values (by pulling levels down in Max Bit Depth mode for the Sequence), but Premiere isn’t seeing them as intended. As well as "common" media players.


    In practice, it makes sense that Premiere would assume that a 444 file would be full range. Full range files are 4:4:4. But that only happens for me with my NeoScene Cineform importer plug-in which is, of course, not out of-the-box and hence always interprets footage as intended based on it's type and meta (if present).

  • I wouldn't remove the values, rather change the labels to:

    Well, with FFV1 you could also export with 12 or even 16 bit and you'd have different values (in theory).


    Actually this doesn't seems to be Voukoder issue (or generally not an encoder issue) but more like how certain decoders are interpreting the encoded file.


    So users should not change this setting unless they really know what they are doing.