Beiträge von morphinapg

I don't believe premiere tells you whether it thinks the video is SDR or HDR unfortunately. You just have to look at the video. Do the colors look more natural? Are some of the highlights blown out? If it was displaying the raw data, the color would look flat and unnatural, slightly yellow/green tinted, and no highlights would be blown out (unless they're just clipped in the source)

The way you can tell Premiere is going to read a video that way is by opening it in MediaInfo. If the clip mentions having BT2020 color and/or PQ transfer characteristics, rather than rec709, then premiere will read it as HDR. Basically, you want to retain the same encoded video data, without those pieces of metadata in there. So appending it to a non HDR video with the same resolution, frame rate, codec, audio format, and container will trick the metadata into thinking it's SDR, and premiere will be tricked too.

If you want to bypass all this work, it might just be easier to use Premiere's own H265 encoder now with HDR options turned on, but if you want to use Voukoder for better control over the encode, it might be worth trying.

Note that HDR clips will usually have more saturated colors than their comparable SDR versions, and some movies also have different color grading in HDR as well, but it's possible something could be happening here.

There will likely be some inaccuracies in color, because of the way Premiere handles HDR source files. Premiere converts them to rec709 first, for display purposes. The format they use is okay if you want to use Premiere's own H265 HDR export, but for Voukoder, the gamma and color needs to be converted back to the raw ST2084-BT2020 data using my preset. Unfortunately, because premiere already converted it into a rec709 color space, converting it back is not going to be 100% perfect. While I do use accurate rec709 to rec2020 conversion calculations, you're going to lose a bit of the original wider color gamut, and there may be rounding errors in both conversions that create that effect you're describing. Gradation between colors though should remain just as smooth as the conversions happen in floating point.

Ideally, the best way to encode these videos with Voukoder would be to ensure Premiere doesn't recognize them as HDR to begin with, so it doesn't perform that conversion, and you can then output 1:1 color information perfectly (or as accurate as the encoder itself is anyway). One way I've found that can work with this is if you append the HDR video, to a video file that has the same resolution, codec, frame rate, and bit depth, but is encoded with rec709 instead of rec2020 metadata. Maybe encode a blank video with the same attributes, including audio codecs, and then use ffmpeg to concatenate the two files together. After concatenating, the output file will use the first file's metadata, so it will ignore the HDR metadata from the second file, and premiere will think the whole thing is rec709. Then you won't need the preset to pre-format the color correctly, as it will already be ready to export. If you can successfully get Premiere to ignore the HDR metadata in the file, you'll create a much more accurate encode in voukoder, but my preset should still get you pretty close.

Zitat von Edragyz

Can someone tell me where to do this? What to change, and where to find it. Thanks.

You don't need to. I've provided the preset above that already accomplishes this

I noticed while testing 8bit output of a video where I tonemap HDR to SDR (performing some color grading) that there was some banding in the output. I'm guessing this is due to premiere reading the source as 8bit, and applying the filter in an 8bit calculation, resulting in rounding issues. I know this wouldn't happen if I outputted in 10bit (tested, looks great), but I don't want 10bit output for a project like this. The maximum depth option in other encoders usually would solve an issue like this by making sure the source and any effects are calculated with 32bit precision.

Zitat von Wickyed

I'm back ! (from holidays ofc :))

I've recorded some 4K HLG HD footages but each file is around 200 MB.

Do you have any preference of the plateform to use for sharing the files ?

I use Google Drive myself

Zitat von scarbrtj

All...
If I have a P3D65 colorspace file... and want to output in that space of course... correct workflow to use NVENC for that? TIA.

I'm thinking you'd probably want to do it this way. Setparams filter:

Then just make sure to set the correct transfer characteristics to match your video clip

Don't use the Lumetri Panel for it. Drag it onto your clip from the Presets folder of the Effects panel

Adobe claims that it affects scaling quality, so if your edits have been scaled in premiere (this may include time remapping), it may improve the quality. If you haven't done anything like that, it probably does nothing.

It's likely something that's applied before Voukoder gets the video data from Premiere.

I don't think Premiere natively supports 7.1. I wish it did. Don't know about the others.

Zitat von Vouk

I guess you are the first one how tried to encode a >3hrs video with Voukouder. Does the error also occur on a 1pass encode? I'd also recommend to use CRF instead of ABR/VBR if you don't target a specific filesize.

I regularly encode videos longer than that, in 4K. I've encoded a 5 hour 4K HDR video with Voukoder without any issue.

Zitat von Kleinrotti

If the values are set correcly it should look something like this in mediainfo:

Params used:

Code

-x265-params :colorprim=bt2020:transfer=smpte-st-2048:colormatrix=bt2020nc:master-display="G(13250,34500)B(7500,3000)R(34000,16000)WP(15635,16450)L(12000000,200)":max-cll=0,0

Source

You set those with x265. These particular flags are set before the encoder gets the data. The idea being (if they had worked) they could pass that data to any encoder that supported it. In particular, if it had worked, it would have been useful for NVENC.

Ooh good find. Also this one:

https://ffmpeg.org/doxygen/trunk/…ayMetadata.html

Yes I think those do have the potential to help, although I have no experience with them

MaxFALL, MaxCLL, and mastering display characteristics are not some universal flag that ffmpeg can pass to any encoder. They need to be specified by the encoders themselves.

Like I said, you can do HDR without it, it's just not fully HDR10 compliant and may not tonemap as well since the display doesn't have any idea of how bright the content gets.

Zitat von Vouk

Well, I put a 30 fps file on a 60 fps project / sequence / timeline. That's not under voukoders control, it will be handled by premiere / the NLE. The NLE will send a 60fps frames stream to voukoder. These frames can be anything. Applying a decimate filter at this staged doesn't make any sense, right? Setting cycle to 3 would just output a 40fps file.. but... why?

Well yeah that example wouldn't make any sense to do other than testing what happens with the filter. For practical purposes I'm talking about situations where your source recording has a higher frame rate than the underlying content. Such as tv with 24fps in a 60fps recording, or my example where the PS4 outputs 60hz so my capture device records a 60fps file no matter if the game itself is rendering at a lower rate.

Basically, what you could test is import a 24fps video, set the timeline to 30fps,make some cuts (especially trimming out the start), and then export. Then, re-import that 30fps and try to get it back to 24fps. Using normal methods, it may or may not work. Either you'll get something smooth, or there will be a lot of judder. This may also change scene to scene depending on the cuts you made.

Instead of using normal frame rate conversion methods, use decimate with a cycle of 5, and you will be able to fully reconstruct the original 24fps frame rate of the source. Decimate is about reconstructing an original frame rate that is embedded in a higher fps source, and doing so with precise results (no judder).

Zitat von Vouk

Ok, crop and pad added.

Not sure about decimate as it adjusts the output framerate.

On a clip with 25 fps "decimate=cycle=3" would generate a 16.66666 fps file. Wouldn't it make sense to put such file on the timeline and then let the NLE convert it to the desired framerate?

If there is a consistent frame pacing in the source, then yes, letting the timeline do it (or the connector) is absolutely fine.

However, if for example if you have a 24fps source that somehow got encoded as 30fps, then what you have is a 1, 1, 1, 2 pattern, meaning the fourth frame is duplicated. It would be very difficult to ensure the frame rate down conversion would exactly remove the duplicated frame, rather than one of the unique frames. When editing gets involved, it's even harder to guarantee that. If the wrong frame gets dropped, you get severe frame judder as a result.

It's too bad the filter doesn't seem to support removing more than one frame per cycle, as removing two frames from a cycle of 5 would be particularly useful in extracting a 24fps video from a 60p source as well at the correct pacing. However this could probably be accomplished by setting frame rate in sequence/connector to 30fps and then using Decimate with a cycle of 5.

My issue is specifically with video game footage. 30fps inside a 60fps container. Ideally, just dropping every other frame SHOULD be good enough, but with video games sometimes a frame is rendered early or late, so if you use decimate you're more likely to be able to detect which of the two frames in the cycle is a duplicate, to better improve the downconversion.

Zitat von Vouk

Seems Voukoder has some issues when the sequence is based on variable framerate (VFR).

Premiere in general does not work well with VFR sources so I'd imagine this to be a byproduct of that

Zitat von Vouk

So they way I get the pixel data from premiere is okay?

morphinapg Could you write down the settings (encoder, options, muxer, filter, etc) and a short description text so I could add this as preset? Or maybe even more than one.

Premiere's editing workflow is rec709. Even when you edit HDR natively, it saves that in a floating point rec709 pixel format, which Premiere's native encoder converts back to PQ/BT2020 when you select HDR encoding (floating point ensures no color or highlight loss on conversion). When using any other encoder, you're getting that rec709 output, clipped to the first 100 nits. Hence why I needed to create the effect preset to "pre-format" the pixel data as PQ/BT2020. The problem is, Premiere thinks it's seeing rec709, so yes, you absolutely must use rec709 output for my effects preset to work. If you select anything else, Premiere will think it needs to convert the colorspace, modifying those pre-formatted values I so carefully calculated.

As for a Voukoder preset, the HDR process requires the premiere effects preset I uploaded earlier (or for your input video to be HDR without PQ/2020 flags) so it wouldn't be so simple as someone picking a preset in Voukoder. Their video needs to be sending the right color data to begin with or it will look completely wrong. That's why I wrote the guide I did. If they are sending the right color data to vukoder, then there is one preset you could create I suppose:

For just generic HDR support, simply using setparams with:

Will allow HEVC, VP9, H264, and ProRes (if not more) to output in some form of HDR (compatibility would depend on devices of course). HEVC is obviously preferred, so I would default to that with 10bit 4:2:0. You could create presets for both NVENC and x265, and for x265 I'd also enable "HDR Options" and "UHD Blu-ray conform" for the most ideal encoding efficiency. I personally use CRF13 with x265 with HDR content. I haven't experimented enough with NVENC to know what the equivalent would be there.

For a more "perfectly compliant" HDR10 encode, the user would also need to include the actual metadata that describes the brightness of the content and mastering display, as I describe in my guide. As far as I know, that's only doable on x265 for now. But it becomes a much more complicated process if you don't already have numbers prepared for that. The guide explains that process involving a tool I created to measure the light output of individual frames. So I don't think it would be particularly useful to create a voukoder preset with predefined metadata. That should be something the user is inputting themselves.

Glad to hear it!

Zitat von AlexF

Good idea! In case you have a Project in 60fps with Clips of exact the 0,5-framerate you will have a better result by exporting the Project in 60fps and then drop every second Frame before Encoding to 30fps. Exactly that's what I'm doing when i would like to preserve a tv recording for future: Cinema stuff on TV will be in Europe converted to 50fps (NTSC-to-PAL-speedup + doubling Frames) and usually it Looks better converted back to native 25fps (1:1 Frame Transfer).

(Sorry! Die saublöde teutonische Rechtschreibkontrolle kann leider kein Englisch!)

Yeah, if it's exact and consistent, simply dropping the frame rate works perfectly (you can do this in premiere, either in export or sequence settings), but when there's some slight variance in the frame pacing, as there often is with games, decimate would typically give a better result.

Anything should be fine